Harley, Steve - Two Damn'd Lies Lyrics

I quite like Steve Keen and i admire the way that he makes the case for changes in economics, a case that i supported before I ever knew of him. I like the fact that he has turned his mind to climate change, because reasoning is needed in a world where no-one seems able to prove their claims. So when I say that I don't accept his answer which predicts the boiling away of the ocean as a technical possibility, and that therefore I must conclude that his reasoning is incorrect, I don't do so from malice. I have spent a an hour or so, not long, trying to locate the error without much success, and so am forced to guess as to its location.
I think that he believes the warming caused by green house gases is cumulative. We know that the atmosphere gives up heat from the atmosphere to space. If it didnt ...
Surely the truth is that as heat builds up in the atmosphere, an ever growing amount of heat is lost to space. To do otherwise requires an endless powering up of the greenhouse effect. NO-one predicts that. To the contrary there is a negative logarithmic effect on the greenhouse effect from growing CO2. The model, I envisage is a return to temperature stasis at a higher level. If Steve could consider this point I would appreciate that.

Good thoughts, but you miss the key. The erroneous economists were chosen and trained by the Kochs and their friends through the funding of departments at colleges such as George Mason University. Those folks are only "experts" because their beliefs have aligned with what further enriches oligarchs. If they believed otherwise someone who believed "properly" would hold their position. You're blaming the patsies. "Dark Money" by Jane Mayer tells the tale.

We can't have infinite exponential growth in a finite space.

The world economy is deflating as the Club of Rome cartel set out to achieve for their political goals as laid out by Maurice Strong to collapse Western civilisation.

@Mark Warburton Don't hijack my comment with your nonsense.

The human race was doomed from the start. Far far more people know a hell of a lot more about superstitious ideologies than they do about science, and in that respect, the Age of Enlightenment was a failure. The majority of people are extremely ignorant, and extremely arrogant about it.
Extinction Rebellion is not a mutiny. ER is a massive group of fools who think the very people who caused this problem, and many of whom believe the Biblical "End of Days" is involved, these people will turn around on a dime, and work to reverse climate change, if we ask them in the right way. Their activities might make them feel better about themselves, but they have no impact on what is going to happen.

Nope. We built this. We CAN fix it.

Capital is a means of a production other than labor, so it includes energy.

Why is this clever economist (relying on the words of others unquoted) babbling on about climate warming that does not exist. He is NOT a climate scientist and is making all these claims about climate warming where as the fact is its going to get much colder. The sun controls earths temperature not man, forget climate look at deforestation and species loss.....far more devastating. This "economist" claims extinction rebellion is based on science it fucking IS NOT. THIS GUY IS FULL OF SHIT REGARDING CLIMATE. Go check your local tide levels the sea has not risen, the Pacific islands ARE NOT sinking wake up its a false flag.

If you think economists models are the only problem you need to look at climate models more closely

What about the economics of going solar. The think reflective mirrors ( taking up 70,000 square meters) , will be able to smelt some plastics and some low grade metal ( @ 700 f).....you can't even make a teaspoon ! And what about the down time when there's no sun (night) or it's cloudy. Manufacturing costs = the end price. Prices of aluminium objects etc. will go thru the roof. And they can't smelt iron ore because you need 3500 f... and you need to add coke to the mix ! Metal smelting can only be achieved with coal or wood !

His ' one seed in, a thousand seeds back theory ' is definately not in line with the seedless GMO take over of the world food supply ( the UN wants the world to turn Vegan)

Human anatomy would confess to vegetarian or even Vegan heritage.. I suggest carrion eaters fail to appreciate how much fear is uptaken from our victims. Besides which vegans are not in a constant state of pillage. If God is life and no other then I suggest it receive proper respect? As for the Rockefeller Foundation? I share your suspicions, Let us not transpose the good about vegans, those who value all life including our own.

Big oil owns the world... big oil has probably diversified into green energy....big oil owns the education system that's brainwashing kids to go green.....big oil is behind climate activists groups... big oil is behind this climate scam ! Check out these 3 links and use some critical thinking !
1. Over a Barrel Documentary (2019) - YouTube (720p)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkFm69JPkJY
2. Donald Trump did the RIGHT thing on pulling out of Paris Accords
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkar4jn3JWw
3. How Big Oil Conquered the World
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1kYJe3594U

Great. Let's let them win by cleaning up the world.

Steve Keen in September 2008 claimed in regard to Australian housing prices that “there's no point in paying a mortgage on an asset that is going to fall by 40 per cent or so in the next few years.” Australian housing prices are now 89 per cent higher than the level at which Keen predicted.
He also claimed ‘best case scenario’ during the GFC being 11 per cent Australian unemployment and a recession “more severe than 1990 and lasting 1.5 times as long”. Unemployment peaked at 5.8 per cent in Australia as Australia avoided the GFC due to its fossil fuel trade with PRC.
The man is a fool.

I haven.t followed the figures and I'm definately not trying to be a smart arse... but didn't inner city Sydney house prices drop 40% last year. And aren't the unemployment figures low, because everybody on a disability pension, has been reclassified as unemployed , and now has to work for the dole ( which shows up on the figures as employed). You have to put in 30 hrs a week to receive $350... even if you've got terminal cancer.

@waynebow 2018 In 2018 Sydney house prices fell 8.2% from the peak in August 2017. The Keen recession never happened. Australia has created a world record of a recession free economy for 103 quarters. Keen is a fool.

@Paul Matters Thanks for the info... I should have known better, I got it off sixty minutes (here on youtube).

@waynebow 2018 Mate it was the biggest drop in prices in 30 years but it was 8% not 40% as Keen predicted. Don't take any race tips off Steve Keen.

And then there is that book by Nicholas Georgescu-Roegen «The Entropy Law and the Economic Process»... And, by the way, why buy into the «mainstream» narrative of «global warming and climate change»?... «The Limits of Growth» is a master piece of Nomahtusian propaganda.

The cardinal sin, or fantasy that economists make is assuming that climate change is a real phenomenon. The first fundamental assumption of this argument is fatally flawed.

Thanks for saying this.... I wanted to, but I'm sick of the backlash. If it's all true, then we won't be around to worry about the economic effects.

That's because it is real.
We see the results all around us. Change in rainfall, Australia is ON FIRE, the bleaching of coral reefs, the list goes on.

@waynebow 2018 There is a reason for the back lash.
It's because you are hiding your head in the sand as the world is killed.


Your attitude is akin to not telling your family about the bomb ticking in the basement, because you are dying that night.
You'll be gone, so you don't care.

@Antediluvian Atheist Yes, you see change all around you, but these changes have always been happening and are in no way the result of human activity. A look at the history of earth's climate will confirm what I say, but if you don't take the long look, you won't notice the cyclical trends. There is an agenda underfoot, and you are being used to promote the narrative. Incidentally, you're doing a wonderful job.

Thank God we have SALPS ..GOOGLE SALPS WIKIPEDIA 1/2 WAY DOWN TO SEE THE EASY SOLUTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE..
UNFORTUNATELY ECONOMIC CRASH BIGGEST EVER IN HISTORY NOT AVOIDABLE


EVEN WORSE THAN I PREDICTED TO THE 2000 JAPANESE WORKING FOR ME IN YOKO IN EARLY 1980'S

The limits are much higher if we live vegan and end animal breeding.

No mention of the Military Industrial Complex - the US Military being the biggest polluters by far - as a result of the endless money printing (dishonest money). Also the ionisation of the atmosphere as a result of geonengineeting. And aren't we supposed to be entering into another mini ice age - due to reduced sun spots (maunder minimum)? All very confusing. But I take comfort in George Carlin's words, "The planet is fine, it's we humans who are fu**ed". And that's nothing to do with climate change!

He was a true comic -prophet !....' the earth might of wanted plastic, so it invented man'.

We need Tesla Towers. Maybe some Zeppelins . Peace

Alternative energy system: Nuclear fusion.

@Peter Clarke You mean that the technology is still at its infancy.

@Gavin Hudson Its been in its infancy for as long as I can remember which is now 60 yrs and does not appear to be getting any closer. Certainly not going to be available in the required timescale 10-15 yrs.

So Steve have become a mouthpiece for Technocratic New World Order people who hires figures like GRETA , AOC , Extinction Rebellion etc neurotic totalitarian liberal globalist communists to "fear mongering" easily fooled people that planet ends in 10 years unless reducing "gas of life" namely Co2
is done , that truly will end life in 10 years, (Steve says 20 years , hope they can sort their differences out as Al Gore once said planet ends in 2016).
Who's the captains Steve want killed? Soros? Well he's one of those behind Extinction rebellion, GRETA AOC and co! Steve need some doses of CORBETTREPORT.COM

Denialism is a toxic symptom of the human condition

Do you deny the inconvienent facts Dr Tim Ball points out in this lecture?

https://youtu.be/M1VJtER2IUE

Neo-Classical economics is so fundamentally disconnected from reality, it's absolutely absurd. I honestly have about zero hope for human kind. We are doomed. We will be mostly extinct by 2100.

I agree. You can't kill the problem until you kill the captain. There's going to have to be a "mutiny" and if you can't handle participating in the mutiny, then you're part of the problem and should also be gotten rid of.

Limits to Growth is a terrifying book I reccomend everybody to read.

Limits to growth written by Club of Rome ideologues.

It's more terrifying knowing that they are now pushing this nonsense today written in that book over 47 years ago through the UN's Agenda21/30 plan.

Who cares what the UN pushes. Nobody listens to the UN.

@shogun7p7

You think, so why are global governments pushing their sustainable development goals of Agenda 21 then?

Economists are so stupid- or bought- that they don't pay any attention whatsoever to even the most obvious and fundamental principles of closed or limited systems as our single Earth is. The most obvious of these is that unlimited growth in a limited space leads directly to collapse. Since it's such an obvious, basic observation I find it hard to accept that otherwise intelligent economists aren't bought off by the current power structure to keep pushing this outlandish and ultimately destructive propaganda. It's criminal because the future of our children is at stake. We don't let killers of children walk free, so why are we allowing these bastards to get away with it?

Stick to economics.
Tony Heller is the expert on the changing climate.

Richard Kelly bitch please....

He always makes sense... using there own data !

Heller has been soundly disproven multiple times..check out potholer54's respones to heller..heller is a fraud.

The simple fact is that our star (the sun) is in near complete control of our climate.
The Greenland glaciers have grown in the last three years.
Ocean rise has slowed to 1.2mm annually.
The earth is actually getting colder...not hotter.
The U.S. is one of the LEAST polluting countries now.


Grand Solar Minimum folks...hold on!
The next 40 years is gonna be cold and harsh.

well, at least your name is correct.

So many problems with his position. First of all, the global population will decline due to falling birth rates and urbanisation. Secondly, the whole basis for the man made Global Warming hypothesis is false.

Fascinating to watch an obviously very intelligent man rightly pulling to pieces ridiculous economic theories and models, only for him to be completely gullible and blind when it comes to ludicrous junk climate science models.

@Gavin Hudson

Just ask Michael Mann about his credentials as an educated scholar Gavin. As I said, your ignorance and stupidity is your problem, if man is a threat to mother nature, do yourself a favour and put yourself out of your misery please.

You do know the UN IPCC scientists are all government funded?

@Mark Warburton Well Mark, you took a while to respond, longer than I expected, and you wanted to get personal as well. You also didn't mention your qualifications as requested.
At least I was gentlemanly enough to meet you half way, in other words I took the time and effort to look at the link you gave me.
Oh, and here's one from Prof Roy Spencer, another one per-center https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-8Nws5wfG0. He totally sabotaged his own argument, because this is what I found out about him.

Spencer is a signatory to "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming",[32][33]
which states that "We believe Earth and its ecosystems—created by God's
intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful
providence—are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting,
admirably suited for human flourishing, and displaying His glory.

You referred to me as an ideologue, but isn't that just the pot calling the kettle black, Mark. I'm happy to explore more than one argument, and you are the one who is the ideologue.

Enough of the cranks, just show me the scientists who are not in the pockets of the fossil fuel lobby, or religious nutcases vetted by Fox media, and I'll pay attention. And also enough of the conspiracy theories, thank you!

@Gavin Hudson

What is yours? Also I see you convienently bodyswerve the above where I stated, just ask Michael Mann about Dr Tim Balls educational credentials who tried to sue him in court that failed.

@Gavin Hudson

You obviously have no educational knowledge of climate change given you cannot prove why Dr Tim Ball is wrong.

@Mark Warburton Jesus Christ mate! only just finished writing up the last entry when you just responded. It's 12.20 am. Give me a break I gotta go bed. I'll look up Michael Mann later.

was following this "expert" with sincere interest, until at the end he lost me completely, when so blatantly recommending "Extinction Rebellion", almost as if they could bring some positive outcome whatsoever... said he believes his economist colleagues are not part of an agenda, which might be true for his colleagues, but instead for him, with his final contradictory "Extinction Rebellion" stunt, his own hideous agenda is completely revealed !!!

I would ask Nordhouse to study the cost of sea level change by comparing the difference in per capita income between the Netherlands and Doggerland....

Essential viewing

Most people are not even aware of these types of problems, they are to distracted with their Facebook profiles or their likes count! Things are going to get worse - get ready!!!

All planned well in advance for the masses to accept their solutions of global centralised power of all living things on this planet.

I was enrolled until the Extinction religion shite 20 years my arse FU-K OFF SIR you bollocks!!!!!!!

Make no mistake about this. Population is going down but fudged by immigration. I’m not being racist here but certain factions are guiding this climate bullshit and bullying the middle classes into violent action based on guilt. Meanwhile the super rich companies and people go barefoot and wail about population. Some of us have to go but it’s not us.

"In the domain of Political Economy, free scientific inquiry meets not merely the same enemies as in all other domains. The peculiar nature of the materials it deals with, summons as foes into the field of battle the most violent, mean and malignant passions of the human breast, the Furies of private interest. The English Established Church, e.g., will more readily pardon an attack on 38 of its 39 articles than on 1/39 of its income. Now-a-days atheism is culpa levis [a relatively slight sin], as compared with criticism of existing property relations....These are signs of the times, not to be hidden by purple mantles or black cassocks. They do not signify that tomorrow a miracle will happen. They show that, within the ruling classes themselves, a foreboding is dawning, that the present society is no solid crystal, but an organism capable of change, and is constantly changing." K. Marx Capital Volume 1 1867 Preface to the First German Edition


"In France and in England [~1830] the bourgeoisie had conquered political power. Thenceforth, the class struggle, practically as well as theoretically, took on more and more outspoken and threatening forms. It sounded the knell of scientific bourgeois economy. It was thenceforth no longer a question, whether this theorem or that was true, but whether it was useful to capital or harmful, expedient or inexpedient, politically dangerous or not. In place of disinterested inquirers, there were hired prize fighters; in place of genuine scientific research, the bad conscience and the evil intent of apologetic.... " Karl Marx Capital, Volume One, 1873 - Afterword to the Second German Edition


"The more the antagonistic character comes to light, the more the economists, the scientific representatives of bourgeois production, find themselves in conflict with their own theory; and different schools arise.


"We have the fatalist economists, who in their theory are as indifferent to what they call the drawbacks of bourgeois production as the bourgeois themselves are in practice to the sufferings of the proletarians who help them to acquire wealth. In this fatalist school, there are Classics and Romantics. The Classics, like Adam Smith and Ricardo, represent a bourgeoisie which, while still struggling with the relics of feudal society, works only to purge economic relations of feudal taints, to increase the productive forces and to give a new upsurge to industry and commerce. The proletariat that takes part in this struggle and is absorbed in this feverish labour experiences only passing, accidental sufferings, and itself regards them as such. Economists like Adam Smith and Ricardo, who are the historians of this epoch, have no other mission than that of showing how wealth is acquired in bourgeois production relations, of formulating these relations into categories, into laws, and of showing how superior these laws, these categories, are for the production of wealth to the laws and categories of feudal society. Poverty is in their eyes merely the pang which accompanies every childbirth, in nature as in industry.


"The romantics belong to our own age, in which the bourgeoisie is in direct opposition to the proletariat; in which poverty is engendered in as great abundance as wealth. The economists now pose as blasé fatalists, who, from their elevated position, cast a proudly disdainful glance at the human machines who manufacture wealth. They copy all the developments given by their predecessors, and the indifference which in the latter was merely naïveté becomes in them coquetry.


"Next comes the humanitarian school, which sympathizes with the bad side of present-day production relations. It seeks, by way of easing its conscience, to palliate even if slightly the real contrasts; it sincerely deplores the distress of the proletariat, the unbridled competition of the bourgeois among themselves; it counsels the workers to be sober, to work hard and to have few children; it advises the bourgeois to put a reasoned ardor into production. The whole theory of this school rests on interminable distinctions between theory and practice, between principles and results, between ideas and application, between form and content, between essence and reality, between right and fact, between the good side and the bad side.


"The philanthropic school is the humanitarian school carried to perfection. It denies the necessity of antagonism; it wants to turn all men into bourgeois; it wants to realize theory in so far as it is distinguished from practice and contains no antagonism. It goes without saying that, in theory, it is easy to make an abstraction of the contradictions that are met with at every moment in actual reality. This theory would therefore become idealized reality. The philanthropists, then, want to retain the categories which express bourgeois relations, without the antagonism which constitutes them and is inseparable from them. They think they are seriously fighting bourgeois practice, and they are more bourgeois than the others.


"Just as the economists are the scientific representatives of the bourgeois class, so the Socialists and Communists are the theoreticians of the proletarian class. So long as the proletariat is not yet sufficiently developed to constitute itself as a class, and consequently so long as the struggle itself of the proletariat with the bourgeoisie has not yet assumed a political character, and the productive forces are not yet sufficiently developed in the bosom of the bourgeoisie itself to enable us to catch a glimpse of the material conditions necessary for the emancipation of the proletariat and for the formation of a new society, these theoreticians are merely utopians who, to meet the wants of the oppressed classes, improvise systems and go in search of a regenerating science. But in the measure that history moves forward, and with it the struggle of the proletariat assumes clearer outlines, they no longer need to seek science in their minds; they have only to take note of what is happening before their eyes and to become its mouthpiece. So long as they look for science and merely make systems, so long as they are at the beginning of the struggle, they see in poverty nothing but poverty, without seeing in it the revolutionary, subversive side, which will overthrow the old society. From this moment, science, which is a product of the historical movement, has associated itself consciously with it, has ceased to be doctrinaire and has become revolutionary."
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/poverty-philosophy/ch02.htm#1b

If the tundra melts, the amount of methane release will doom us.
Here we have economists, supposed scholars who study a complex system, denying the complexity of the system interactions of our planet.
They are stark raving bonkers.

Ashcroft and Keen address herewith the "Cardinal Sin" of Economics: 'The simplifying assumption' (a Fantasy): variations in income and climate will keep pace toward equilibrium!? The shift in economic understanding of "the free gift of nature" vis-a-vis Production and Labour (past 200 years) All schools of economics have left-out Energy in basic economic theory during past two centuries of error.
Randers's discussion of 1900-1970 period study in co-authored book *Limits to Growth* is super! No Climate, No Economy! Using 1.6 planets per year? Then Nordhaus --- in 2018-- professes 4 degree warming of planet is "optimal," and then receives a Nobel Peace Prize? Now that is really irrational. Sad, sadly Absurd. Thank you Ashcroft, Keen, and Randers! Suggest that you have a video with same actors, and invite Prof. Tim Garrett, University of Utah, into the important conversation. Much appreciated, thank you, and keep up great work and production. Peace

It occured to him in 2016...bit late. Every ecologist on the planet has known this for almost as long as the field has existed. It's just the application of the second law of thermodynamics.

What Keen still hasn't grasped is that money is the means by which we as a society direct the application of energy to do work.

The wheat in the field will never get harvested if we don't use money to pay for the labour(which needs energy as food to stay alive), machinery (which needs energy to manufacture) and fuel (energy) needed to do the harvest. Energy is needed to do work and in today's society you cannot do any work without money somewhere along the chain to make someone/thing expend energy.

Our problem is that the planet has an energy budget. Admitedly we managed to get a huge energy injection in the form of fossil fuels, but they will run out one day and we will have to live within the Earth energy budget delivered to us by the sun each day.

Failing to recognise that money is the units we use to use and direct energy means that we have created more money than there is available energy. Eventually this over abundance of money will have to realign with available energy.

Debt is just a means of taking more than ones allocation off energy and a promise to use less in the future to make up for it. Problem is monetary interest assumes more energy is going to be created in order to charge for the use of energy. While we were in a fossil fuel boom this was correct. But it's not any more, we have reached peak oil and gas with coal not far behind, there will be no extra energy to put in the coffers and we are now being forced to start living off the Earth energy budget.

In other words we are creating money that the real energy budget will never be able to cash.

The economy around the world is absolutely doomed unless we can link money with energy with.

His claim about capitalism failing at equilibrium, is the exact opposite. Markets never change, are undemocratic, what stocks and supplies rise in price are controlled by the rich why what they invest in as well as the prices they choose. Regular people have no say. In socialism they have all the say. Socialism has the innovation because the resources as well as education is spread more evenly. In capitalism you get alot of uneducated people because they're easier to control.

More Bollocks, the assumption is that Man through CO2 is causing Global warming, the fact that it's an impossibility doesn't seem to interest these cretins.
Peace

@C Scott You are staying with Logic, Science and Truth also mate, everything you stated is exactly right. It's hard to fathom how the Climate Evangelists can hold their angle with no basis in fact hey? At this moment time is still on the side of the Logical sensible approach and the Evangelists side is fast crumbling, that's why the massive effort at the moment to force their Lies through.
Peace

@Ken Bar CO2 is a Trace Gas that makes up 0.37% of the Atmosphere, Man's total emissions of CO2 a year is 3% of total emissions. Have those types of numbers ever logically been able to cause Catastrophic effects in whatever they related too? Think about it.

@Shan Ri Ha How would you possibly know. Are you a climate scientist, do you think you have any concept of the nuances of chemistry. Quoting percentages are irrelevant if you don't have a full comprehension of what the chemicals do, and how they interact with other chemicals and parts of the eco system? In fact you are doing yourself a diservice in you rationale, CO2 is only 0.037% of the atmosphere, not 0.37%, you had it 10 times higher! However, you state 'Have those types of numbers ever logically been able to cause Catastrophic effects in whatever they related too?' Lets see, I calculate that 3% of 0.037% is about 0.001%. Well how about Ricin in the human body for example, that takes about 0.0002% to be lethal to the human. I would call that catastrophic, wouldn't you. I wish people like you would stop making such blind assumptions, it's dangerous for the planet! Also remember that this CO2 increase is cumulative, it doesn't reset every year.

@Ken Bar, perhaps, just perhaps, this will help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsMWUK4WGkk

@Shan Ri Ha

Why was CO2 levels at 2'500 ppm 140 million years ago and has fallen to dangerously low levels of 400 ppm today? What caused this level of CO2, man was it to blame?

Economy as it is today does not belong in academia. It's a as it is today at best a pseudoscience in same category as "astrology" ie humbug.

Ah but it's not going anywhere; it's far too valuable as a propaganda tool.

One big problem Prof. Keen forgets to mention is that most economists are funded by various interest groups who rather expand their business than saving human beings from extinction. What they don't understand is that once population shrinks severly due to climate change, so will their business. In the end, economy shrinks so much that it can no longer "offset" any cliamte change costs.

Until early this century the Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change asserted that the climate is a non-linear, complex, chaotic system that is unpredictable. They deleted this from their website, not because the science had improved so as to make the climate predictable, but because the fact had become inconvenient.

STOP IT WITH THE LIES.

You are one of those stupid idiots with conspiratorial mind.

IGPCC has accurately predicted Global Warming for decades now.

https://youtu.be/ugwqXKHLrGk

''lack of reality''? that's you lot too

this discussion is highly ideological

4comment0nly - and nothing practical

@No more War - and full of angry people who pump themselves up by putting others down. Constantly.

''rapid warming''? bs
''say scientists'' - ha!

yeah bogus economics but also bad climatology, so don't think climatology is good b/c the economics is bad.

What utter rubbish.

Keen is just another geek, just a bit different to those he criticites. Proof? He praises XR, which is just another Woodstock, and no it is not the efficient energy we should priritize, it is Wall Street, Tax havens, 3% growth imperative that have to be eliminated through constitutional changes. Only another idiot can expect different decisions by the same decision makers.

Exactly.

“Economists must learn to subtract” (00:32) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-lEATP-9Y

...and also, down 👎with the trade war advisors in the WH......
.....up yours 45
..is there such a thing like, professional malpractice, for backdoor economists or people like PeterNavarro.?

Steady now climate psychos all that crying is going to turn into a biblical flood...

Agree, too many "Gretas" out there. What they forget is that she is diagnosed with Asperger's and needs care and A LOT of medicine. Just like many of climate psychos.

Early in the interview Steve Keen mentions that theoretically we should go back to the Pre-1770 economic model and start again..... Hmm that's just about Pre-Rothschild take-over time isn't it?.
Good interview thanks

It is said that carbon dioxide stands for 14-25 percent of the greenhouse effect. I strongly doubt that it is that much for several reasons (it also defies logic that the 0.04% CO2 would cause as much as 14-25% of the greenhouse effect).
This means that out of the raise of 0.8-1 degree Celsius since preindustrial times the burning of fossile fuels results in at the most 0.2 degrees Celsius. I'm however pretty sure - for several reasons - that the burning of fossile fuels has resulted in substantially less than a 0.2 degrees Celsius increase of the global temperature during the last 150 years.
And when you add the fact that the burning of fossile fuels only has added 3-4% (maybe less) of the 0,04% CO2 in the atmosphere, then the burning of coal, oil and gas of - at the very most - the 0.2 degrees becomes much less.
SOURCE: G. A. Schmidt, R. A. Ruedy, R. L. Miller and A. A. Lacis (2010). ”Attribution of the present‐day total greenhouse effect”. J. Geophys. Res., 115, D20106.

Climate is actually getting colder raher than warmer ,according to the the large amount of scientists climate is getting colder . We in the nortthern hemisphere could get a ice age in 2020 . Watch david dubuyne on a you tube he is talking about the solar
minimum of the sun.

",according to the the large amount of scientists climate is getting colder" then proceeds to quote ONE scientist. I am living in Sweden since 26 years back and you have ALWAYS had ice age for fucks sake ! 7 months a year nordic countries are barely habitable !!! Sadness, darkness, cold, depressed lonely people.... Ice age is literary an improvement for your kind.

william nordhaus is the lunatic that proclaimed 2C was the limit of mean temperature increase, previously scientists were talking about 1C as the maximum. if we use the 1750 baseline we're currently at 1.7C and then there's the aerosol masking effect which if it was stripped away by emissions reductions would lead to 1-1.5C increase in temp. within weeks to months. all in we're currently at 2.7-3.2C above pre-industrial, the arctic is melting and methane is being released - we've cooked our goose.

we're going extinct and not in some distant future.

You and yours friends can go. Normal people will stay and wave you bye bye 👋

One way to see it is the way of the villain in Pluto Nash, sending that glass of water off the table and onto the floor, and the tirade about how destruction creates life and activity (a number of small robots cleaning up the mess).
To some, any mess, any activity, is something to extract from, and these are the ones that gets scared by the word _stagnation_ and loves the word _growth._
Imagine now the window seller/installer who hires someone to go around at night to break windows...

You got 20 years ! They said that back in the 50s.

And they were right. Our last chance for change was the 70’s. We’ve been on borrowed time for decades.

Get another hobby Richard. You’re not doing well with this one.

It's not CO2, it's not you, it's the Sun dummy. The grand solar minimum the magnetic pole shift and climate forcing, a recurring 11,000 year extinction cycle they have covered up since the 1940's.

repeating a youtube fruitcake says it all about your intellectual prowess.

@counselthyself who's repeating what now?

counselthyself CO2 accounts for less than .5% of greenhouse gases - the human component of that number is 1/10th for those who like the fear mongering taxation laden Global Warming fearporn - they couldn’t even tell you what the #1 greenhouse gas is cause they’re to damn lazy to do their own research to find out the basic facts. Without CO2 in the atmosphere we would all be dead from lack of oxygen so this scientific consensus is full of holes. Anyone who has passed Science 101 could do a better job of explaining it than those charlatans.

@counselthyself

Dr Tim Ball proves you're wrong with facts.

https://youtu.be/M1VJtER2IUE

Steve Keen is a Club of Rome shill hence why he get's airtime on the mainstream media to push their propaganda.

I am afraid we are going to have to have massive wars and killing to preserve the planet. Voters will never accept responsibility.

Rubbish

I'm afraid voters don't have any real power at present. The constituents the politicians work for are the ones who finance their campaigns. The vast majority of the people they simply ignore.

@RussCR5187 Governments, and their constituents, don't have solutions or the will to resolve today's social problems. No one, including the planet, can sustain a population as large as it is today. Terrorist actions and wars will address this situation and give governments more power over the people that survive. But, you are right no one cares about the people.

They will save the planet believe me. They’ll get rid of half the worlds population when we’re no longer required, by either worldwide civil unrest or a plaque.

But, but ... it's not the planet that needs saving. It's human lives. The planet will be fine. It has millenia to work with in getting back to "normal".

Another opinion from a Climate Alarmist who is NOT a Climate Scientist.
Have you heard of Prof Ripple of Oregon State University, USA? He was the lead author of the statement published in the journal BioScience on the 40th anniversary of the first world climate conference, which was held in Geneva in 1979.
The statement was a collaboration of DOZENS of scientists (NOT CLIMATE SCIENTISTS) and endorsed (it was a PETITION for goodness sake) by a further 11,000 (what? ordinary people, eco activists, real scientists or climate scientists? ) from 153 nations.

Prof Ripple is an ecologist not anyone who knows ANYTHING about climate. He's simply NOT a climate expert. He works in FORESTRY and is a well known eco activist warrior best known for his work on the GREY WOLF, not climate.

He is also the author of

"The Extinction Rebellion Handbook"

YES that lunatic group that blocks traffic in city centres and says we're all going to die.

I'm sorry Britain has no choice in this election. You'll get the govt you vote for. If Labour gets in and destroys the SYSTEM, including the unjust & biased Crown Prosecution Service, my hope is that the prison system which survives on very little funding & staffing lets the innocent and tortured free to come home. Unless Julian Assange is released he will develop cardiovascular breakdown or nervous collapse and die long before he's extradited to the US. He's lost 15 kg / 33 lbs and can barely speak.

(Ref Nils Melzer, UN Rapporteur on Torture.4.11.19)

I saw "Soylent Green" (1973) when it first came out. Over the years, I wondered how far-fetched it is or not? It's not!

I was born in 69 , and I saw that movie , and read the book , Brave New World , when I was in primary school . Fascinated me when I was young , terrifies me now .

Of you lol are the imperial colonies we are feeding off dark skinned people.

Steve Keen is not into bitcoin...need I say more?

It seems Keen confuses the origin of Technocrats who used energy as the primary input for their economic models with the French Physiocrats (Quesnay) who created the first National Income Account to comprehend the circular flow of income among cultivators, lamdlords, industry and government allegorically to how blood flows through the human body

We’ve seen that energy consumption correlates very closely to GDP growth of countries.

Assuming that our planet is a closed system is the main error. We have to go to space and develop an infrastructure and economy there. Setting industries on orbit will help our planet. Yes we need thorium reactors too!

Just to be clear on one point, climate change does not assume our planet is a closed system. The sun's rays come in from outside and heat is radiated back out into space. At the moment, not enough heat is being radiated out due to CO2 in the atmosphere. To your main point, developing infrastructures in space, even if it was a good idea, would take too long at the massive scale required. Climate disruption is increasing at an exponential rate and will likely cause societal breakdown before anything truly significant could be done. Besides, industries in orbit will not solve the resource extraction problem. We're consuming the resources of 1.6 earths now. There are very few resources to be found in orbits around earth.

I argued for energy to be a part of economics years ago, I considered man power to be energy however, rather then seeing food as energy, but its obvious that energy is what runs everything ultimately, and everything has an energy cost.

Jeh'ovah instructs the joos how to enslave gen'tiles using us'ury

Us'ury is embraced in the Bible, but only upon Gen'tiles, and not Jo'os:

In Deute'ronomy 23:20, we read:

“Unto a stranger [foreigner, i.e. Gen'tile] thou mayest lend upon us'ury;  but unto thy brother [fellow Joo] thou shalt not lend upon us'ury.”

prov'erbs 22:

7 The rich rule over the poor,
    and the borrower is sla've to the len'der.

deuter'onomy: 28

12 and thou shalt le'nd unto many nations, and thou shalt not borr'ow.

deute'ronomy 15:

6 For the Lord your God will bless you as he has promised, and you will le'nd to many nations but will bo'rrow from none. You will rule over many nations but none will rule over you.

In Billions for the Ba'nkers, De'bts for the People (1984), Shel'don Em'ry wrote:

*“Germ'any issued debt-free and interest-free money(no us'ury)* from 1935 and on, accounting for its startling rise from the depression to a world power in 5 years. Germ'any financed its entire government and war operation from 1935 to 1945 without gold and without de'bt, and it took the whole Capitalist and Com'munist world to destroy the Ger'man power over Europe and bring Europe back under the heel of the Ba'nkers. Such history of mo'ney does not even appear in the textbooks of public (government) schools today.”

There is a huge difference between 95%of mammal biomass being human and ustakeing up 95%of the world's space so disingenuous you came on to wings at one group for being blind but you sir are a hypocrite

Save the planet get rid of all billionaires and central bankers.

Just give Earth a break and get rid of its biggest threat, you climate psychos...How you going to get 10 billion inhabitants to do what YOU and climate high priest Attenborough want? Which is what by the way? Soy fed bellends need not respond...

Bill Payer, you are the soy-fed bellend, as soy is mostly used as cattle feed.

It's why you've ended up as a bitch.

When you are so pathetic you attack Attenborough and spew out insults in order to not be challenged, it just shows what a pointless, pathetic, dishonest troll that you are.

I hope you reap everything you sow.

@Arfur Fuxxakes I suspect that decency was weaponized by our handlers some time ago. Also I suggest carbon units are not an issue as they are readily absorbed back into the earth. There are however many man made poisons and wastes which do threaten our existence. The governments have their own monopolies on the worst of these. I suggest environmentalism is being used as a Trojan horse to extract more usury for the banking cartel. This message to all with a birth certificate and citizenship, which are nautical euphemisms for chattel of the European banking cartel.

@Bruce Campbell

No.

@Arfur Fuxxakes


https://youtu.be/M1VJtER2IUE

Who is denying climate change that has occured throughout earths long history you ideologue?

On the what gives you the right question he has the right to free speech, and anyone can question a world view Dr or not and it is up to those who believe the original assertion to disprove those questioning after all from the mouth of babes

Bollox! Why are climate change sceptic scientists given very little MSM airtime, is that a conspiracy? Why has Mann (Hockey stick inventor) had his libel cases thrown out of court with prejudice? The science is not 'solved'...ETC..Paid 'studies' by vested interests will confirm whatever is on the agenda....Pulp fiction!

@counselthyselfPolarstern, correct me as I'm sure you will, but is that the ice-breaker that got stuck in the sea ice? Would love to see their catasrophic report which so far is a massive 3 months of extensive science research. It really is a religious cult. What you going to do when the worlds population reaches 10 billion, resort to the Communist solution? Do us all a favour and head-up the carbon bypass queue..

@counselthyself People like me are your problem. I even put money on you claiming that polar bears are dying out because of the weather changing. You do know the seasons changing is not man-made, right?

counselthyself Quit trying to sell us a dead horse - they talk about bringing CO2 levels down to zero - I guess if your a climate scientist you don’t believe in biology cause we would all be dead along with all living things on earth if that happened - so the reason people don’t believe is common sense - like the highest level of greenhouse gas is actually H2O but is NEVER mentioned - why ? Cause this is all about generating taxes - without even a plan for how that will help solve this made up crisis - of course there’s no plan - cause if there was 1/ you would have to justify how that will help resolve a made up issue 2/ you would have people following up to ensure the solution proposed and being paid for by taxing the people was actually doing something and that is where you fall short - cause you cannot show a solution is working to a made up problem - you will then be exposed for what you are liars that sold out for $.

@Bill Payer Because he has nothing sensible to say about the matter.

@Stanley Goddard Mr. Bill Payer appears to be in the YouTube class I like to call "Last Worders". Short, insulting posts that say nothing of any substance, ignore any questions asked, and are meant primarily to provoke a reaction. I will try maybe two or three times to tease something out if I think maybe a modicum of intelligence lurks in the deep, dark recesses, but will more often than not end up inviting them to go ahead and have the last word. For some people, facts and reason just bounce right off.

Where we are, my 2bits for a direct solution to energy, altering jetstream paths back to Holocene patterns, how-to's & why's:

There are 4 factors, paths to prolonging Holocene sealevel stability and weather globally, think baseball hail, flooding, landslides, tornados, wildfires and big storms.

The first flips towns off-grid, its magnet motor for 1300hp/1-Mw is small, 24x7in/61x17cm so powers => cars, trucks, tractors, trains, planes and ships at sea.

This implies cars on up without refueling or recharging for the LIFETIME of the owner, eh?

The 1300hp/1-Mw has a "half-century warranty" of 24x7 power with normal upkeep, the magnets are still 90% in 1000-years, it's the only sensible power source to pursue.

A 17yr R&D; technokontrol.com/en/current-projects/generator.php, the RF-5000, sparkless, military-spec, ships in a container.

Made to wire panels into as the inverter: 10kw•$15k, 5kw•$8k $35/mo, 1.2-cents/kwh; "20-year no-inputs warranty"; infinitysav.com/magneticgenerator/

The 5kw fits a pickup toolbox, is quiet, no fumes indoors, looks good for construction, eh?

These globally are the ONLY machines ready for assembly-line, high-volume design and production I found in trade studies, you try.

SECOND, use algae to purify wastewater at the treatment plant, or onsite for home•farm•ranch using the same units as this emits O2 and removes CO2 for a burnable fuel, eh?

That is, the oils & biomass can become biodiesel and derivatives, from a pilot study I did for Phoenix, AZ, the plant capacity 10M-gallon/day can produce about 3M-gallon/day of biodiesel.

Gov. Jan Brewer & her EPA head were on board, we got shot down by her party tge GOP.

Too bad, eh? Sound familiar?

THIRD: Have ALL IC-Engine mfg's make tailpipes based upon N.Tesla's one-way air valve with no moving parts that nearly ZEROES emissions.

A fourth, 1/4th, of tailpipe emissions last >> 10,000yrs in the upper stratosphere where greenhousing occurs.

These also trap particulates, a scale from the heat stored from exchanger pipe wrapping the tailpipe to use on-demand later & vehicle heat.

The steam trapped will become acids from water so hydrate the solids to a scale that coats the inside, this can be scraped and collected, it's toxic waste yet has chemical value if processed.

These eliminate soot from biodiesel, they can be scaled up to industrial smokestacks, it reduces back-pressure, improves performance.

Nicola Tesla tied it to IC-Engines for this purpose 80yrs ago, eh?

FOURTH: It all boils down to dealing with Arctic seaice, HEAT GAINED in the 2007 retreat was 95,000-Twh over average.

Closing all Steam-Age power plants 250Mwh and above is a one-time save of 36,000-Twh in emitted wasteheat.

That's 2•1/2-times too little to balance the 'gain <=> loss' compared to the 1980-2000 average ice extent.

"Runawatmy Greenhousing" is in progress the Arctic without intervention.

Ocean heat is what brings the extremes in weather vs assuming it'd get tropical for Midwest Farmers, eh?

Also, the Arctic Ocean is at the aragonite saturation point, all that a local marine biologist saw flying over the newly opened water were JELLYFISH, millions of them.

There is No Fishery there as it becomes open water, this zone expands south, in 60yrs the upper half of the Bering Sea will have few pteropods, there's no replacement species for salmon fry & juveniles depending on them.

The serious 'Last Hurrah' for it all, to me, for what humanity needs to do asap:

Install a weir dam at St. Lawrence Is. and polder north the entire Chukchi Sea to prevent wave damage and stratify the water to refreeze the bottom creating a year-round seaice refuge.

ALL shipping confined within 3-4km of shore, ZERO cross-ocean traffic, this uses Dutch ships, materials and methods to create polders, shoals & levees.

The task submerged "atolls" encircling the large subsea methane vents down at 150m/490ft, this uses the bubble flow to pull in colder bottom water which refreezes them.

It all confines the freshwater runoff and most of all limits early melting from shore out to-sea in spring.

This reduces the 5-Amazons of warmer, fresher water to 1/100th of what it is that's melting the seaice from below.

Fresher water freezes at a higher temperature so true seaice isn't formed at the surface on freezeup, it needs -2C/28.4F for seaice to last over ONE season.

This intends to prevent the Siberian jetstream from turning north and can be modelled.

The N.Pacific is too warm and heats the airmass from below, so, with The Blob in the Gulf of AK it drives the jetstream pattern north, needs to change back closer to Holocene paths.

So, the warmth sends rain to Anchorage in December and frozen oranges to Florida the routine now, started early this fall, eh?

As that air cools it now gets to low latitudes ONLY over land to balance equatorial overheating, same for Eurasia.

The concept has 36,000 views on a seaice forum and zero actions upon it.

It's the only geographic location on Earth with the ability to alter the Anthropocene jetstream paths back into N.America instead of going north.

I can't order it done, the people in the poop deck party think everything's fine with lifeboats already in the water ...

In any case, it's the ONLY sane try to alter things not dependent upon emissions to overcome those effects enough to give MIDWEST FARMERS a break, else, expect a repeat of this past year or worse, eh?

Expect flooding after this early snow [still October], cold ground for maximum runoff vs a normal Holocene year, or worse, it stays cold and dry => wildfires.

Welcome to the Anthropocene, CO2 won't go below 400ppm for >>120,000-years as oceans OUTGAS CO2 from their aragonite losses by "reversing the carbonic acid cycle" which acidifies fast and goes alkaline very, very slowly, a bio-geochemical hysteresis, a real reason to consider extinction with business-as-usual.

"The rate of acidification is 10-times faster or more than anything we have seen for the past 50-million years and perhaps over the last 300-million years.".  ICES ASC 2013 Plenary Lecture;
By: Dr Richard Feely, 9:10 into 1:01:08; 14:30 in CO2 vertical maps; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etFob9Wy45E

Very sensible and comprehensive of relevant fundamentals; "Global Warming 56 Million Years Ago: What it Means for Us";
By: Dr. Scott Wing, Smithsonian Museum of Nat' History; 1:44:14; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Zb0pJa3Hg, [Temperature duration chart: Solomon et al., 2009, PNAS]

Modelling climate, what a "carbon excursion" is to paleontology, 1st part awards, great talk, illuminating; the total carbon is way too close to the PETM; an Emiliani Lecture: AGU 2012 Fall Mtg;
"No Future Without a Past 'or' History will Teach us Nothing";
By: Dr. Richard Zeebe, Univ.of Hawaii; 52:57; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6pyb9_PHv4

Dr. Peter Ward, UW paleontologist, short talk on the almost mammalian extinction, biomarker paleontology, and using hydrogen-sulfide for critical care as an evolved result in humans; 29:05; https://youtu.be/ea6L3ydgMrc
Ymmv.

1000 years ago the Greenland ice shelf did not exist and there was no polar ice cap at the north pole. Vikings were successfully growing barley in the rich top soil which lies beneath today's tundra. How had man's activity created that period of global warming and why did it result in an era of economic growth and increased civilisation?

Arfur Fuxxakes can you supply links to evidence that breaks down you’re opinion?

@twoforty

Grow up, you stalking troll.

I don't need your* opinion as it's worthless to me.

Thanks.

@Arfur Fuxxakes tsk tsk, links to facts not name calling, please

@Arfur Fuxxakes Good job. You just proved his point.

How can everyone vote for government you take and spend pepole pensions in a word its theft

Bullshit the scam is global warming or what ever they call it, there's other technology's in operation to day that produce electricity also the aviation fuel hoax SCAMMING taxing people is all about. The first I want to see is the extinction of the Extinction rebellion 🙂

The science is clear. The science is robust. The deniers are out in full force.

He gives such simplified picture of natural science. It is stupid that someone who is expert on economics doesn't want to be involved in it but talks about natural science where he has no knowledge at all. Stupid. His model was proven wrong especially about temperature rise. He doesn't know what is he talking about.

Energy schmenergy - economists are NOT inept. They are doing exactly what they've been trained to do - make rich people richer. Universities that have changed economics departments into business schools are the problem.

People who cannot, or will not, identify and act on the messages of legitimate climate science are the problem. Corporate elites who direct their news divisions only to show content according to their own political agenda are the problem. Fossil fuel companies who fund disinformation campaigns are the problem. Politicians who allow themselves to be bought by big money are the problem. The problems are too numerous to list in a comment section. Therefore ... yup, Extinction Rebellion has the right idea. Virtually all of the levers of democratic power have been captured by the 1%. The only power "we the people" have left is in sheer numbers of people. Bring on the sustained mass demonstrations of non-violent civil disobedience!

@RussCR5187 Truth, but unfortunately the majority will continue to remain unaware and apathetic... Do what you can, but most certainly spend quality time with your loved ones.

@Brandon Agreed. We've just moved to a different state to be near our daughter and her family. My mother-in-law has moved in with us. I spend a few hours a week playing with my 2-year-old granddaughter. Family comes first.

Global Chicken Little Syndrome is raising Trillions handed to 3rd world countries to spend unsupervised how much do you think is being looted as you read this.

How did you come up with such an interesting theory?

What trillions and who now has those trillions?

@Arfur Fuxxakes last I heard the US contribution alone was 650 Billion no time span was mentioned it may have been annual. There is an entire UN Diplomatic Corps hundreds of people with support involved in maintaining and talking about Climate change. Countries insisted they were given un supervised access to the funds to spend as they see fit. So not even the UN knows where it winds up. Did a quick search just now lots of information on Australia's carbon tax pricing etc near impossible to get a figure on how much it has raised. You can guarantee other countries do the same and hide it from the public.

@yfelwulf

So, no facts, no evidence, just your rambling incoherent guesswork.

As I thought.

97% Consensus on Climate? fabricated by John Cook his title 'Research Fellow in Climate Change Communication' his actual field is Cognitive Psychology - Science. He is not scientist he runs a 'Climate Denier Conversion Course' & invented 97% Climate Consensus.
https://www.edx.org/bio/john-cook
University blocks access to his Uni QLD account threatens to sue. https://www.edx.org/bio/john-cook
His Web Page.
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/05/john-cooks-consensus-data-is-so-good-hell-sue-you-if-you-discuss-it/
His Qualifications?
https://theconversation.com/profiles/john-cook-3280
His online course.
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/tony-thomas/2014/11/giving-denialists-third-degree-uni-qld-leads-way/
More links to Cook
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=john+cook+queensland+university&oq=john+cook&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j35i39j5j0j69i60.4614j0j4&client=ms-android-sonymobile&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#xxri=0
97% Climate Consensus fabricated by unqualified Research assistant at Queensland University. That now blocks his account to non Students his Job? runs a Climate Denier Conversion Course on the Public $
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/05/john-cooks-consensus-data-is-so-good-hell-sue-you-if-you-discuss-it/
Faulty Research.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/queensland-academic-wins-climate-award-four-climate-myths-busted-20160511-gospas.html
Convinced Obama to spout shit with a Text Message.
https://www.edx.org/bio/dr-john-cook
Scientists quit IPCC.
http://www.habitat21.co.uk/energy151.html
Blogger threatened for exposing 97% Consensus FRAUD.
https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/18300-climategate-3-0-university-threatens-blogger-for-exposing-97-consensus-fraud

Real Sea Level figures.
Fort Denison Australia data 'more accurate than satellite' on sea level. ABC Australia runs news item Fri 18 Oct Sea Level rising rapidly. 10 second later Mangroves dying due to lack of? Sea Water.
https://youtu.be/9mjOmsqIibk

Very well explained considering economics but completely wrong about global warming. Origin of climate change is not CO2. It is stupid. Nanotechnologies, microplastics, methane from fracking and destroying clean water, gliphosates and GMOs those are destroying diversity and imposing monocultures and Gates patenting seeds, you can't patent nature. CO2 is natural gas

@Jurij ... whadda' pile of poop, CO2 rules the thermal balance of this planet you're living on, the PETM was from 50,000yrs of volcanics spewing CO2:

Dr. Peter Ward, UW paleontologist, short talk on the almost mammalian extinction, biomarker paleontology, and using hydrogen-sulfide for critical care as an evolved result in humans; 29:05; https://youtu.be/ea6L3ydgMrc
Ymmv.

Do you think when people on islands and isthmuses such as the UK/Ireland or Florida have to walk around their houses in "Wellies" year round we might begin to believe in climate change?

Not man made climate change. The sun controls the climate, hard as that is to believe.

The evidence is out there if you choose to seek it. That or just keep on ignorantly bleating.

Pat Branigan - waiting

@No more War The more you wait, the more it's too late.

RussCR5187 - still waiting for the ozone layer end of the world here or maybe global cooling - or YTK to kick in. Waiting patiently. Lol

LOL Go to Southeast Asia, India, Mexico, South America,... climate change crisis doesn't exist in countries like this, tell them to stop driving Cars Bikes etc.. lol ..Fat chance

Seriously?

They were digging graves in January getting ready for all the deaths in June India would have this year. They were right. It was 125 Fahrenheit for a good week and would kill you in 6 hours of sitting naked in the shade.

Seems to me it is the belief in the perfection of capitalism (or the perfection of anything for that matter) is the problem.

Or ... it is the passive acceptance of the destructive results of capitalism that is the problem. Wealth gap, starvation wages, scandalous health care costs, and on and on. In reference to Extinction Rebellion, civil disobedience is not the problem. Civil obedience is the problem.

When the climate crisis reaches the nexus it will be too late. These people who are destroying the climate with their policies actually believe they will survive it in luxury in their bunkers either here or on Mars. They are the people who are in denial of reality and visit their fantasies down on the rest of us. The people they bring with them for security and their comfort will kill and eat them as useless pieces of society when the society breaks down as resources become scarce.

yfelwulf
Well said. Not a lot of people know this. This 97% nonsense is bandied about everywhere without challenge and has become dogma. No commentator or journalist even thinks, or wants to check the validity of the assertion or where it originated. Many earth scientists do not agree with the consensus because it is not scientific, it’s propaganda. Their opinions are suppressed.

@yfelwulf please let the arctic know - https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php

counselthyself What is the number one greenhouse gas ? Hint it’s Not CO2. Ok I’ll help you out here cause I can see your another one of those - show me scientific evidence holier than thou people. It is water vapour - clouds in other words - so hey let’s get rid of clouds. Let’s put plastic sheets over every body of water around the world - and let’s tax everyone for this project (secretly we’ll only spend 5% of what we take in and have the rest for ourselves but hey you gotta do what you gotta do to survive in this world)

@No more War you're a moron.

Agreed!

Climate Change alarmists whether Economists or Faux Scientists, they WILL DESTROY ECONOMIC PROSPERITY, around the globe, full stop. Scientists are greedy liars who make their capital on the backs of hard-working Labour & certainly those in poverty too. The only CRISIS is not the environment, it’s the new GOD OF MONEY-MAKING for the very few, pushing unscientific CLIMATE CHANGE! Pity.

There is no climate emergency. The climate will carry on changing long after we, as a species, have become extinct; and all the carbon dioxide has disappeared from the atmosphere.

Indeed, lowering co2 would reduce crop yields and require more scarce fresh water, so just as well it is physically impossible for us to do so. The whole 'zero carbon' push is a massive globalist scam designed to make the likes of Al Gore even filthier rich than they are now and at our expense. Question more Renegade Inc and get some AGW sceptical scientists on your otherwise excellent show?

Agree. But we seem set on reducing our system inertia by using more renewables. Black outs inevitable.

The criticism of economics is more than justified.
The "climate crisis" part, however, is fiction.

That's an interesting opinion.

Can you post a link to the particular piece of research that convinced you?

Thanks.

@Arfur Fuxxakes Lots, but the one I usually cite is this:
https://youtu.be/oYhCQv5tNsQ

Oh, I was also in the Maldives a few months ago. You know, those islands that were supposed to be underwater, by now? Alive and kicking and very optimistic about the future.

@Defend Liberty

You got your whole opinion from a 'documentary' that even those who are in it have disowned it as 'manipulated propaganda' ?

Made by an antagonist who sets out "to upset people he doesn't like, regardless of any truth or facts".

I'm truly embarrassed for you.

You may as well base your life on any other work of fiction.

You haven't looked for clarity, you've merely found a single film whose comfortable lies suit your agenda.

@Arfur Fuxxakes Be embarrassed of yourself being the gullible useful idiot of a doomsday cult.

@Defend Liberty you better let the arctic know about your commandments king knut - https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php

I do believe in climate change i just dont believe its man made.

@twoforty

Troll along, you pathetic simpleton............

@Arfur Fuxxakes tsk tsk, facts not name calling, please

@twoforty lots of facts and discussion, the arctic doesn't give two shits about you. https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php

2 simple facts.
The upper atmosphere is getting colder while the lower atmosphere is getting warmer. That means there is a layer of gas trapping heat coming from the sun. It also means the sun is not driving the warming or the upper atmosphere would be warming too.
Fact 2 is that when we go to this layer, 30% of it is made up of carbon 13, which is only made by the burning of fossil fuels and volcanic eruptions. We haven’t had that many volcanoes erupt. It’s humans.

Arfur Fuxxakes US Military biggest polluter :
https://youtu.be/M3USbzcyX_Q

Greta is a child actress employed by bill gates one group. I green energy pressure group. What do you think the odds are that bill has green energy companies ready to capitalise on new legeslation.

@Arfur Fuxxakes

What and who caused previous global warming cycles that were far warmer than this current interglacial warming cycle since you follow the science 'kiddo'?

@Arfur Fuxxakes

Let's see if you can answer the questions put to you as you couldn't provide me with long term CO2 and temperature data to prove the assertions of the UN IPCC that CO2 is the cause of climate change and global warming 'kiddo'!

@Mark Warburton

Oh dear, I've got another stalker troll.

Or maybe you're just a different account of the same one.

Look, temperatures have fluctuated through history, over MILLENNIA, this time its happening over decades.

I'm sorry you refuse to understand such an obvious point.

Go educate yourself properly because I really can't be bothered to waste effort on those who are either too stubborn or too stupid to argue with.

I don't care what you have chosen to believe, it's none of my business and arguing with yet another idiot on YouTube is a waste of my time.

Give pester someone who thinks your opinion matters.

Ball claimed, in an article written for the Calgary Herald, that he was the first person to receive a PhD in climatology in Canada, and that he had been a professor for 28 years,[48] claims he also made in a letter to then-prime minister of Canada, Paul Martin.[49] Dan Johnson, a professor of environmental science at the University of Lethbridge, countered his claim on April 23, 2006, in a letter to the Herald stating that when Ball received his PhD in 1983, "Canada already had PhDs in climatology," and that Ball had only been a professor for eight years, rather than 28 as he had claimed. Johnson, however, counted only Ball's years as a full professor.[50] In the letter, Johnson also wrote that Ball "did not show any evidence of research regarding climate and atmosphere," which Ball later admitted.[42]
In response, Ball filed a lawsuit against Johnson. Johnson's statement of defence was provided by the Calgary Herald, which stated that Ball "...never had a reputation in the scientific community as a noted climatologist and authority on global warming," and that he "...is viewed as a paid promoter of the agenda of the oil and gas industry rather than as a practicing scientist."[49][failed verification] In the ensuing court case, Ball acknowledged that he had only been a tenured professor for eight years, and that his doctorate was not in climatology but rather in the broader discipline of geography,[42] and subsequently withdrew the lawsuit on June 8, 2007.[49][51]
In February 2011, it was reported that climate scientist Andrew J. Weaver had sued Ball over an article Ball wrote for the Canada Free Press which was later retracted. In the article, Ball described Weaver as lacking a basic understanding of climate science and stated, incorrectly, that Weaver would not be involved in the production of the IPCC's next report because he had concerns about its credibility.[52][53] Ball contended that the lawsuit was nothing more than an attempt to silence him because of his skeptical position on global warming.[54] In February, 2018 Andrew Weaver's defamation suit against Ball was dismissed completely. The judge noted that Ball's words "lack a sufficient air of credibility to make them believable and therefore potentially defamatory" and concluded that the “article is poorly written and does not advance credible arguments in favour of Dr. Ball’s theory about the corruption of climate science. Simply put, a reasonably thoughtful and informed person who reads the article is unlikely to place any stock in Dr. Ball’s views...".[55][56]

@Mark Warburton

Quit bitching and whining like a loser on another thread when you've run away from the facts on this one.

Still spewing the same debunked drivel.

Still bleating about conspiracy theories.

Yet when shown evidence you run away like a coward.

Man up and admit you're clueless and I'll accept your apology.

Because I believe in helping those less capable.

Some of us have been saying for decades that infinite growth is not possible on a finite planet.

Yet every market sees growth as essential, to the point that often it is the only measure given for success.

Whatever you think the reasons behind climate change are, it is definitely happening.

There is going to be mass migration when coasts flood whilst arable land turns to desert.

But like has been said, humans only react once a situation directly affects them, which is too late.

Population is not as great a concern as consumption, but the biggest consumers will tell you differently.

@Arfur Fuxxakes where are the facts your opinion is based on?

Stalking trolls, what a pathetic bunch of pointless cowards they are.

@twoforty More data comes in from some less destructive surveys of other nearby floes by the Akademik Fedorov. The more information that trickles in, the worse the overall picture looks. The ice in the region is less than half as thick as the satellite images suggested back in Tromsø, typically around 30cm rather than the 80cm they were expecting. The vast, thick kind of floe that would be ideal to support the expedition appears to be a lot closer to extinction in the Arctic than the scientists had anticipated.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191014-climate-change-arctic-expedition-finds-itself-on-thin-ice

@Arfur Fuxxakes Don't hold your breath.

CO2 in atmosphere is only 0.04%.

@Arfur Fuxxakes

Only people who need help is those who believe cutting CO2 levels will prevent the earths climate from changing, as I said, do the world a favour and stop exhaling, maybe eugenics is not such a bad idea after all when dealing with uneducated fools as yourself.

@Arfur Fuxxakes

Do you deny the empirical data known as facts you claim to support?

https://www.google.com/search?q=co2+levels+over+past+600+million+years&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=insv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGutSknM3nAhXMURUIHQnSAKEQ_AUoAXoECA4QAQ#imgrc=F7u392we92M6MM

@Arfur Fuxxakes

Do you 'deny' the scientific data that shows the sun and solar activity of sun spots drives the earths ever changing cycles of warm and cold periods throughout earths history and not CO2 as the UN IPCC states?

Again, I thought you're not a 'denier' of science you hypocrite!

https://www.google.com/search?q=solar+activity+cycle+to+earth+temperature+history&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiHyoimnM3nAhWCABoKHYfDAjcQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=solar+activity+cycle+to+earth+temperature+history&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.3...56145.82910..83277...1.0..0.244.6177.10j39j1......0....1.......2..41j0j0i67j0i8i30j0i24j0i5i30j0i30j30i10j33i10.81cDMn13yi4&ei=eZFEXsepFoKBaIeHi7gD&client=ms-android-samsung&prmd=insv#imgrc=WAlh-XInJSZv8M

@Arfur Fuxxakes

Inconvenient facts you won't be able to dismiss with evidence to contrary hence why you resort to using they typical lanuage of 'denier' or flat earth for something you don't understand!

https://youtu.be/K_8xd0LCeRQ

@Mark Warburton

Grow up kiddo.

I spanked you on the other thread, which is why you ran away from it.

Now you're recycling the same shit, totally ignoring that fact.

I hope you get the help you need.